It has been almost fifteen years since I moved to London from Istanbul. Like every immigrant or ‘alien’ or nomad or exile, I have left a part of my heart behind. That is what migrations and relocations do to us, says the fig tree in The Island of Missing Trees
“for an LGBTQ+ woman of colour, or a young man from a working class background, or a refugee who has lost everything and must rebuild their life... being expected to downplay their own attributes is something else altogether. The latter, I would say, need empowerment and encouragement, not automatic self-effacement. Would you agree?”
Couldn’t agree more - thank you for highlighting this - will share for those to whom it will make a difference.
I’ve taken my Life in the UK test this week (also almost 15 years in London) and I realised it was quite useless in proving my cultural adaptation to the UK and its ways. I would have found more relevant and useful any of the points Elif mentions here (from the weird plumbing to crisps flavours to the nuances of self-deprecation and how it might be a double-edged sword) or even questions about all six seasons of The Crown than what the test material is actually about. Let’s be honest: one can perfectly function in the UK without knowing about the Glorious Revolution, that a jury in Scotland has 15 members, or that you need to be 16 to buy a lottery ticket. But where one shows true integration is in getting all agitated at suggestions of who the next Bond will be.
“Story land is my homeland”. Mine too!! I always say that (as a six languages speaking immigrant who has moved / been uprooted numerous times) “writing is the only real home I have ever had”. I like your version better. And, I don’t drive either… And I wasn’t crazy about the English weather either when I lived in London, but ever since I moved to Montreal I miss it! Apparently the weather can get much worse. Having grown up in Israel where I took sunshine for granted, I now have to content with 6 months of snow and snow at the end of April! I’ll happily tolerate vinegar on my chips and milk in my tea for shorter winters… and also, the best theatre scene in the world! The thing I miss the most about London
First of all, the photo at the top stopped me in my tracks. Such BEAUTY 😍
Secondly, I absolutely agree that while self-deprecation may be appropriate for a white middle-class man, it may not be for other people. I think we all need to seek what is growth for each of us, and everyone’s growth needs may be different.
For example, Joy Sullivan’s new book of poetry, Instructions for Traveling West, I keep hearing is about finding the courage you need to get out of your ruts and make major changes to find your life. While that may look like growth for many people, I need to find a rut and stop moving (23 moves in the last 14 years of life).
Note: I ordered the book anyway because her writing is gorgeous ♥️
Similarly, other people may have tendencies to stay in relationships too long that are no longer good for them, and they need to work on leaving. I have a tendency to leave perhaps too early, perhaps before giving it a second chance. I need to practice staying, putting in the work, giving my partner a chance to see if he will put in the work. My growth may look different from others’.
As long as we’re all working on ourselves (considering our current capacities to do so), that’s what counts. At least, I think.
I have read many of your pieces, and I love your creative expressions, your interesting turns of phrase, the words you use… but this is such a clean, beautiful piece of writing that it’s by far my favorite. Thanks for sharing it with us..
Being born and bred in London, I totally understand and see the self-deprecation occur daily. I still do it myself sometimes without realising, as a way to be comical I suppose. But I’m more conscious because you’re right, it’s not the same as humility and words of self-encouragement are precious💛
Culture is a serene, snow laden river, more liquid than solid— even when it looks absolutely still and unmoving, it keeps changing, meandering, gaining speed and shaping us all along the way." So beautifully put.... so true. I'm a born Brit who lived in Southern Africa now returned t to London. Many different cultures to understand. Thank you.
The answer to the vinegar question would require going directly to page 293 of 'Understanding The British', which is is to be discouraged. Their arcane practices will make no sense with out convoluted propitiations. Idries Shah's 'Darkest England' is a suitable primer . Haha! I'm teasing. Fish and Chips were a poor person's food in the same way as Pizza in Italy, similarly not available on pain of death, say in a Milanese restaurant. In the UK you would have hardly any fish but heavily battered required tons of vinegar. It's a celebration of former frugality in a way, even though you pay dearly for this culinary delight these days. Then, to go 'up north' and have curry sauce on your chips with mushy peas... de rigeur but not cordon bleu.
French who lived 10 years in London (and outside of France most of my life) 👋.
I was always impressed by their subtle art of self-deprecation. And more generally with the importance and quality of humour in the Brits. Its diversity too. And the subtle art of wit and banter!
Living in London made me discover a love for stand up comedy and for storytelling, through comedy.
Thank you for this brilliant piece that brought up a lot of wonderful memories.
I agree - in the UK, the higher in social status you are, the more you are supposed to relentlessly take the piss out of yourself, downplay your achievements, play the fool. But if you do it without that automatic privilege of wealth or class or social standing it reads differently. Hugh Grant mocking himself in an interview is hilarious but I agree others have to tread a bit more carefully.
Privileged Brits enjoy belittling their achievements, though many of them have a lot to be modest about. But this self-deprecation is actually a feebly-disguised plea for admiration, a double bluff where someone uncertain of their success plays it down in the hope their listener will tell them how wonderful they are. Anyone baffled by it would surely be better off being honest than emulating it. You don't have to endure it, any more than you have to put vinegar on your chips when you prefer ketchup.
“for an LGBTQ+ woman of colour, or a young man from a working class background, or a refugee who has lost everything and must rebuild their life... being expected to downplay their own attributes is something else altogether. The latter, I would say, need empowerment and encouragement, not automatic self-effacement. Would you agree?”
Couldn’t agree more - thank you for highlighting this - will share for those to whom it will make a difference.
I’ve taken my Life in the UK test this week (also almost 15 years in London) and I realised it was quite useless in proving my cultural adaptation to the UK and its ways. I would have found more relevant and useful any of the points Elif mentions here (from the weird plumbing to crisps flavours to the nuances of self-deprecation and how it might be a double-edged sword) or even questions about all six seasons of The Crown than what the test material is actually about. Let’s be honest: one can perfectly function in the UK without knowing about the Glorious Revolution, that a jury in Scotland has 15 members, or that you need to be 16 to buy a lottery ticket. But where one shows true integration is in getting all agitated at suggestions of who the next Bond will be.
Vinegar on chips lowers the glycemic index of the potato, making it a healthier food.
Truly?
Truly🇺🇸
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/16015276/
“Story land is my homeland”. Mine too!! I always say that (as a six languages speaking immigrant who has moved / been uprooted numerous times) “writing is the only real home I have ever had”. I like your version better. And, I don’t drive either… And I wasn’t crazy about the English weather either when I lived in London, but ever since I moved to Montreal I miss it! Apparently the weather can get much worse. Having grown up in Israel where I took sunshine for granted, I now have to content with 6 months of snow and snow at the end of April! I’ll happily tolerate vinegar on my chips and milk in my tea for shorter winters… and also, the best theatre scene in the world! The thing I miss the most about London
I would love you to write more about dreams! And I love your style, your text flows so gracefully!
Ah, I am always happy when it rains too!
First of all, the photo at the top stopped me in my tracks. Such BEAUTY 😍
Secondly, I absolutely agree that while self-deprecation may be appropriate for a white middle-class man, it may not be for other people. I think we all need to seek what is growth for each of us, and everyone’s growth needs may be different.
For example, Joy Sullivan’s new book of poetry, Instructions for Traveling West, I keep hearing is about finding the courage you need to get out of your ruts and make major changes to find your life. While that may look like growth for many people, I need to find a rut and stop moving (23 moves in the last 14 years of life).
Note: I ordered the book anyway because her writing is gorgeous ♥️
Similarly, other people may have tendencies to stay in relationships too long that are no longer good for them, and they need to work on leaving. I have a tendency to leave perhaps too early, perhaps before giving it a second chance. I need to practice staying, putting in the work, giving my partner a chance to see if he will put in the work. My growth may look different from others’.
As long as we’re all working on ourselves (considering our current capacities to do so), that’s what counts. At least, I think.
Elif,
I have read many of your pieces, and I love your creative expressions, your interesting turns of phrase, the words you use… but this is such a clean, beautiful piece of writing that it’s by far my favorite. Thanks for sharing it with us..
Being born and bred in London, I totally understand and see the self-deprecation occur daily. I still do it myself sometimes without realising, as a way to be comical I suppose. But I’m more conscious because you’re right, it’s not the same as humility and words of self-encouragement are precious💛
Culture is a serene, snow laden river, more liquid than solid— even when it looks absolutely still and unmoving, it keeps changing, meandering, gaining speed and shaping us all along the way." So beautifully put.... so true. I'm a born Brit who lived in Southern Africa now returned t to London. Many different cultures to understand. Thank you.
What beautiful words and thoughts! ❤️
The answer to the vinegar question would require going directly to page 293 of 'Understanding The British', which is is to be discouraged. Their arcane practices will make no sense with out convoluted propitiations. Idries Shah's 'Darkest England' is a suitable primer . Haha! I'm teasing. Fish and Chips were a poor person's food in the same way as Pizza in Italy, similarly not available on pain of death, say in a Milanese restaurant. In the UK you would have hardly any fish but heavily battered required tons of vinegar. It's a celebration of former frugality in a way, even though you pay dearly for this culinary delight these days. Then, to go 'up north' and have curry sauce on your chips with mushy peas... de rigeur but not cordon bleu.
With affection.
French who lived 10 years in London (and outside of France most of my life) 👋.
I was always impressed by their subtle art of self-deprecation. And more generally with the importance and quality of humour in the Brits. Its diversity too. And the subtle art of wit and banter!
Living in London made me discover a love for stand up comedy and for storytelling, through comedy.
Thank you for this brilliant piece that brought up a lot of wonderful memories.
I agree - in the UK, the higher in social status you are, the more you are supposed to relentlessly take the piss out of yourself, downplay your achievements, play the fool. But if you do it without that automatic privilege of wealth or class or social standing it reads differently. Hugh Grant mocking himself in an interview is hilarious but I agree others have to tread a bit more carefully.
Privileged Brits enjoy belittling their achievements, though many of them have a lot to be modest about. But this self-deprecation is actually a feebly-disguised plea for admiration, a double bluff where someone uncertain of their success plays it down in the hope their listener will tell them how wonderful they are. Anyone baffled by it would surely be better off being honest than emulating it. You don't have to endure it, any more than you have to put vinegar on your chips when you prefer ketchup.
Thoughts on culture, migration and self worth, so beautifully expressed by @elifshafak